CAROL: I understand that your primary interest is in creating a healing space for council around issues of cultural division and the propriety of sacred rites and rituals. My personal feeling is that it is very necessary for a bridge to be built at this time because our white culture is so shut off from our earth-centered roots and this is what has hastened our disregard for the planet and spirituality in general.

MORWEN: Absolutely. The gist of it all is that we live in a Christian, European-derived culture which is very out of touch with its earth-based roots. It is very interesting to me that white people are now embracing indigenous spiritual paths because, by and large, we are still subject to the conditioning of our childhood which told us that the European-based earth spirituality, which is Paganism and Witchcraft, is evil. People are still in such denial about this conditioning, yet at the same time they feel a pull towards earth-based religion. Because of this, I feel they are turning to the earth-centered paths which are not of our ancestors. But there's a special significance to the shamanic aspect of it. I am using shamanic in the generic sense of the direct contact with spirit... 

CAROL: ...which is not something easily accessible through our mainstream religious practices in the Jewish or Christian traditions?

MORWEN: Not as they are practiced in mainstream society today. There is no provision for being able to go into a place of altered consciousness in direct contact with spirit. That's what shamanism is about. 

The term shaman has a double meaning. In one sense, there is the "shamanic technology" of altered consciousness and communication with the spirit, however you define that, which is basically open as experience to any- one. And then there is a social role of shaman in traditional cultures around the world that is reserved-for particular individuals in the community as a path of service. 

What is happening now with the emergence of a new global awareness being facilitated by global communications and the incredible mobility of people is the breakdown of the traditional tribal culture. The increase of communication worldwide means that greater access to the technology of shamanic practices is available.

CAROL: What is shamanic technology?

MORWEN: "Shamanic technology" is the means of entering into an altered consciousness in order to communicate with the spirit realm for the purpose of healing and service to the tribe. Rhythm is the foundation of all the various methods used to do this by people across cultures and across time. The use of rhythm can include drumming rhythmic movement or dance, chanting or breathing. Basically, it's a kind of rhythmic entrainment between the body and the Universe, which catalyzes a transcendence of the physical limitations of the body and access to the ecstatic realm

There is certainly an opportunity to use this "technology" to accumulate personal power. When you are able to access a spirit guide, you develop an ability to travel in the spirit realm. There is potential to acquire some personal power by doing that. But the obligations of service to the community should not be ignored. 'OK, so you are able to do shamanic journeying. Now, what are you going to do with it?' The truth is that I do not have that much of a problem with people using this technology in service to others for healing.

CAROL: In traditional settings aren't there only one or two people who are shamans for the tribe? Is it possible that everybody could have access to this shamanic realm, or is that not a possibility? 

MORWEN: In a traditional tribal setting, that role is held by one or two people, and it is passed down in whatever way the tribe does, whether by heredity or by call. In some ways, the question you are asking is exactly the point of contention. The difference is there a distinction to be made between this technology, which presumably anyone has access to like technology in our modern world, and the social role

CAROL: So we can be all 'mini-shamans' in our own lives?

MORWEN: I think there is something appropriate and inevitable about that. I do not think that it is necessarily disrespectful of the traditional cultures. It is the healing that we need to have on a global level right now. The more people who are tuned in to this level of reality and healing, the better.

But there is a context and history to our European culture which has included riding roughshod over indigenous cultures of the planet in pursuit of material gain. Because there is that history of exploitation, there is an obligation to be sensitive to that.

We were brought up in a culture that says competition is good. Orientation to service and giving is not well emphasized. When people latch onto something that is really powerful, there is not a lot of reinforcement in this culture to use it for a life of service. If every single person learned this shamanic technology and used it for service within the circle, just think about how powerful that would be!

But that is not what is happening. So it is naive of someone like me to say 'yes, everyone can be a shaman.' There is a level on which I do believe that, but I also know what the inherent danger in that is.

CAROL: Yes, everyone grabbing a piece of power for their own personal use.

MORWEN: That is not a far-fetched notion. People do that. People can be counted on to do that, especially white people, not to sound racist. Let's face it; it is our history and it id the way our culture is structured. It is not because people are evil, but it is because there is a lot of support for people doing that. It's practically the definition of success in our mainstream society.

I am in a place right now where I would say that Native people are absolutely justified in making their claims and I understand why. In the same breath, I can say that I am justified in doing the work that I am doing to promote people having access to this kind of energy because I think that the more people have access to the tools and attitudes of transformation and the commitment of service to go with it, the better off we are all going to be.

I understand why that causes distress for people. The best that I can do is to try and hold that space open to hear their truth, and not to be closed minded about my own truth. 

CAROL: How does this relate to what you and Jimi do with Earth Drum Council?

MORWEN: It is all about creating a container, a sacred space that is safe for people to open up to that ecstatic realm to receive whatever inspiration and information is available to them to bring back into their community in a way of service. This space, this ecstatic realm is available to anyone. Part of our responsibility is not just to give people the guidepost to get there but also to help them formulate intentions about what they are going to do with it.

What we do is create opportunities for people to come together to drum and dance in a sacred way in order to build community. It gives people the opportunity to express themselves, to pull out things from deep inside, to be seen for who they are, and to provide the space for people to come in touch with what they have to offer back to the world. We see drumming and dancing as really powerful ways of getting in touch with that. The orientation to service is integral to what we do.

CAROL: You have been able to create a community this way?

MORWEN: We sure have. We sponsor an open drum and dance jam in Cambridge twice a month. It draws all kinds of people from all kinds of places. We join in circle during the night and we come together to close our circle. We have a critical mass of people coming together and understanding what it is all about that helps us create that container.

CAROL: I feel that's exactly the purpose for us coming together in September also. All the ripple effects from holding and attending such gatherings can never be fully known.

MORWEN: Over the past seven years we have been doing an Earth Drum Council Weekend in June. Out of that has grown an amazing community, very diverse and full of energy. The drumming and dancing together, when you do it with intention, cannot help but weave those connections among people.

The other piece that makes it happen is the council. That is why I am excited that we are doing a council in this event because the opportunity to witness each other in that kind of sacred space is a huge contributor to people feeling connected with each other on a deeper level. It has been the council more than anything else that Jimi and I have done that has made the roots of community really go deep. It is really about using those tools in a sacred way to build community and do healing work for the community at large.

My priority for the September weekend is focusing on making this council a safe and sacred place. Not everyone is going to agree. The goal is to create a space where everyone can be heard and respectfully witness from where they are at. There is not just one right and wrong answer. It's about how we take into account the fact that we are all on this planet together. There is not just one way to do it.

Morwen Two Feathers is co-founder of Earth Drum Council and was the co-coordinator with Jimi Two Feathers of Harvest Gathering '97.

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Carol Bedrosian is the Publisher and Editor of Spirit of Change Magazine which is located in Grafton, MA. To contact Carol call 508-839-2228, fax 508-839-1173 or email SpiritPub@aol.com.